Time magazine's 30,000-word cover story: The story behind Trump's election as BTC President

Original author: Eric Cortellessa, TIME

Original compilation: Liam Carbon Chain Value

This is the moment he has been dreaming of for four years. At 2:24 a.m. on November 6th, Donald Trump, surrounded by advisors, party leaders, family, and fren, swaggered onto the stage of a banquet hall in Florida. The Associated Press has not yet announced the election results, but it was already clear that the voters had propelled him back to the center of power. Trump gazed at a crowd of supporters wearing red MAGA hats, basking in the almost certain victory. ‘We have achieved the most incredible political achievement,’ Trump said. ‘America has given us unprecedented powerful authorization.’

How 78-year-old Trump wins re-election will become history, and America’s choices can be traced back to some key decisions. For Trump’s senior aides, the theme of the campaign can be summed up in a simple slogan: ‘Maximize male role, control female role’. This means emphasizing economic and immigration issues, which Trump has persistently done. It means shifting attention away from the chaos of his first term, the abortion ban he introduced, and his attack on American democracy four years ago. It means capitalizing on the dissatisfaction of disillusioned voters and exploiting the cultural divides and tribal politics that Trump has long exploited.

Most importantly, this result can be attributed to an extraordinary figure whose return to the political stage of the White House is unprecedented in the 250-year history of the United States. When Trump left office in 2021, he incited a group of supporters to ransack the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to overturn his election defeat, resulting in condemnation. Three years later, he orchestrated an unprecedented political comeback. Trump effortlessly defeated his Republican opponents, forcing President Joe Biden to withdraw from the race, and overwhelmingly defeated Vice President Kamala Harris, which was beyond everyone’s expectations. In the process, Trump escaped 34 felony convictions and a series of other criminal prosecutions.

His success is astonishing. Trump won North Carolina, brought Georgia back into his camp, and broke the blue wall. His campaign went beyond expectations of gaining support from male and female voters. Exit polls show that Trump gained significant support from Latino male voters in key battleground states, with their support in Pennsylvania rising from 27% to 42%. Nationwide, Trump’s support among Latino males jumped from 36% to 54%. Trump also increased his share of non-college educated voters, won support from black voters in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and solidified support from white women nationwide. This shocked Democrats who had expected an uprising after the death of George Floyd. Among first-time voters, Trump’s support rose from 32% to 54% compared to four years ago.

He has had many breakthroughs. When Trump launched his campaign after facing his third consecutive condemnation in the national election, Republican leaders tried to ignore him. His main opponents were too timid to challenge him. Friendly judges and the dual factors of legal delays pushed his most severe criminal trial until after the election. As late as July, Trump’s opponent in the election was still an unpopular incumbent president, whom many believed was too old to continue in the position. Biden’s poor performance in the first and only debate confirmed these suspicions. The Democratic Party hurriedly replaced the first president with Harris, losing a more experienced and potentially more widely supported candidate. Voters are calm about Trump’s advanced age and increasingly incoherent campaign rhetoric. Most Americans see Trump’s legal troubles as part of a larger corrupt conspiracy aimed at depriving him and their power. After the outbreak of the new crown pneumonia, the global situation was turbulent, leading to incumbent leaders around the world stepping down, and Trump also benefited from it.

The consequences could be historic. Trump has dominated American politics for nine years, and after four years of turmoil during his presidency and the outbreak of rebellion, America has chosen to reappoint him. Trump has proposed an authoritarian agenda that subverts the norms of American democracy, and he is ready to implement this agenda: mass detention and expulsion of immigrants; political retaliation through the judicial system; deploying the military against its own civilians. The extent to which he chooses to exercise the power entrusted to him by the public will determine the fate of this country.

For loyal supporters of ‘Make America Great Again,’ Trump’s victory is an exciting vision. For those less fervent supporters who helped him reach the top, his rhetoric is mainly grandstanding, aimed at reforming a government that is out of touch with the needs of the American economy and society. For the rest of America and much of the world, Trump’s second term seems like a blow to democracy in the United States and elsewhere. This divided situation will be the focus of public opinion in the United States for the next four years. The level of polarization in this country is more severe than at any time since the Civil War. But soon, at least one thing will bring us all together: by January 20th, we will all be living in Trump’s America. This article is based on more than 20 interviews over the past eight months, telling the story of how Trump has done this, giving us a glimpse of what Trump might be like.

As usual, Trump formulated his strategy based on intuition. In April 2023, just a few days after becoming the first former president to be charged with a crime and making history, he gathered with his advisors at the Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida. The topic of discussion was how he could control the political narrative. Trump had just finished a call with his friend and CEO of the Ultimate Fighting Championship, Dana White. There was a match that Saturday in Miami. ‘I think those guys will like me,’ Trump said.

On April 10th, when Trump entered the arena, he was greeted with thunderous applause. There, he met the Nelk Boys, a group of influential figures who host a right-wing podcast. Trump had appeared on their show a year ago, but was removed by YouTube for spreading election lies. This chance encounter led to a second appearance. His closest confidant at the time was unaware of this, but the interview on the male-centric podcast would become a turning point in his extraordinary political revival.

It’s easy to forget how unstable Trump’s prospects were at the beginning of his campaign. He announced his third presidential campaign in November 2022, and a few days ago, the Republican Party suffered a terrible defeat in the midterm elections - the third consecutive national election in which the former president was seen as a drag on the GOP. Trump’s carefully selected candidates accepted his lies about the 2020 election being stolen and lost crucial contests nationwide. Elected Republicans see this as a sign of America breaking away from Trump, and almost everyone avoided his opening speech full of dissatisfaction at Mar-a-Lago. They just hope he disappears.

However, it has been proven that launching the campaign early was a wise move, as Trump used it to portray the imminent criminal lawsuits as politically motivated. With each prosecution, his support among Republican voters continued to rise, and he received millions of dollars in cash. His main competitors spent more time attacking each other than overcoming the obstacles in their way. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who could be considered Trump’s strongest opponent, dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses. By March, Trump had secured enough delegates to become the Republican nominee. This was the most fiercely contested presidential primary in modern American history.

Trump’s overwhelming victory in the primary election is the result of the careful strategy formulated by his two campaign managers, Susie Wells and Chris Lasivita. Wells is a senior strategist in Florida, who worked for DeSantis during his 2018 gubernatorial campaign, but they fell out after he was sworn in. After the 2020 presidential election, Wells took over Trump’s primary political action committee ‘Save America.’ According to sources close to him, although Trump is in exile, he is already planning his return to Washington. He suspects that the biggest obstacle in the 2024 primary may be DeSantis. Who better than Wells to help him?

Wells recruited experienced Republican agent Lassavita. They drafted the campaign strategy together. They concluded that the supporters of the Make America Great Again movement were strong enough to ensure Trump’s victory in the Republican primaries, giving them time to implement a plan to defeat Biden in November. Trump’s team focused on building an operation to identify and remove Trump supporters who were not reliable voters.

Wells and Lascivita, political director James Blair, and Trump’s long-term pollster Tony Fabrizio believe that gender will be key. In 2020, Biden maintained a 13-point lead over Trump among female voters, the same lead that Hillary Clinton had in 2016, while narrowing the gap among male voters by 5 percentage points. ‘Men cost us the last election,’ said a senior Trump campaign official. ‘Our goal is to not let this happen again.’

A survey found that men, especially young men, have the greatest aversion to Biden, especially on economic issues. In face-to-face confrontations, Trump’s lead among unreliable male voters under 40 is most pronounced. Advisors are focused on activating this group, overall believing that Biden is an old man who should not be president. These young people do not get news from the mainstream media and are not very concerned about reproductive rights or democratic regression. When they do interact with politics, it is mainly through avant-garde podcasts and social media. They appreciate Trump’s recklessness and unconventional habits. It is a risk to focus a lot of energy on winning over those who are not very interested in politics. But Rashevita often repeats a famous quote from Winston Churchill, which later became his campaign slogan: ‘Everywhere sought safety, everywhere inaction.’

While Trump seeks to win male voters, he must also avoid losing the election by a larger margin among female voters than in 2016 and 2020. This is not easy, as the Supreme Court justices he appointed helped overturn Roe v. Wade, paving the way for nationwide abortion bans. Whenever he talks about abortion, Trump insists that the issue is now up to the states and focuses as much as possible on the economy, immigration, and crime, which the campaign team believes are causing anxiety among affluent suburban women who would otherwise support him.

When Donald Trump sat down for an interview with Time magazine in April 2024, Biden’s approval ratings were plummeting, and the Trump camp believed they were on the path to a decisive victory. In the two interviews, Trump outlined his agenda for a second term, reshaping America and its role in the world. At the same time, a coalition of groups aligned with Trump, such as the 2025 Project of the Heritage Foundation and the American Revival Center, was laying the groundwork for implementing Trump’s strongman vision. Many of their ideas—from strict abortion restrictions to rolling back environmental protections to placing the entire federal bureaucracy under presidential control—are not popular with the broader electorate. But Trump seems to believe that victory in the fall is inevitable.

Since the disastrous debate performance on June 27, Biden’s campaign team’s confidence only began to rise in the tense three weeks. On July 13, Trump narrowly escaped an assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania, with a bullet piercing his ear. Trump stood up, waving his fist and blood streaming down his face, a defiant scene that excited his supporters. A few days later, Trump announced 39-year-old Ohio Senator J.D. Vance as his running mate at the Republican National Convention, seemingly indicating his confidence that the MAGA movement would continue long after its leader exits the political arena.

The climax did not last long. Three days after the Republican National Convention, Biden announced that he would not seek re-election and supported Harris. Within a few days, the Vice President consolidated support for the Democratic Party. Soon, her fundraising surpassed Trump by hundreds of millions of dollars and held rallies that attracted attendance and enthusiasm unseen by the Republican Party since the Obama era. Trump’s victory no longer seems certain.

In a series of meetings at Palm Beach and Trump’s New Jersey Golf Club, Wells, Lassiveta and their staff held multiple meetings to counter the threat posed by their new adversaries. Younger candidates make it harder for them to attract voters who are disappointed with Biden. It will be more difficult to control the losses of female voters when competing with women. Democrats’ efforts to tie Trump to extreme agendas like Project 2025 are starting to bear fruit. According to Trump’s sources, early internal polls indicate this challenge. Fabrizio’s survey shows that there is a widespread desire for change, and the biggest risk they face is to make Harris a candidate for change agent.

The Trump team started running ads and had their agents on cable TV, blaming Harris for Biden’s election as president and speculating that she would inherit many of his boss’s weaknesses. They follow her role in government immigration affairs, where she was assigned to address the root causes of immigration from Central America and attributed the surge in border crossings to her. At the same time, Trump began to distance himself from the ‘2025 Plan’ while trying to portray Harris as more left-leaning than she actually is.

Privately, the campaign team believed that Trump’s stance on abortion - leaving it to the states to decide - was not sufficiently comprehensive. Surveys show that the right to abortion is the third or fourth most important issue for voters. After months of hesitation on federal restrictions, Trump’s senior aides told him it was time to address the issue head-on. On October 1st, Trump posted on Truth Social that he would not support a nationwide ban.

There are also internal challenges. Trump is becoming increasingly restless. He brought in allies from his previous campaign team, including Corey Lewandowski, one of his campaign managers in 2016. According to multiple campaign officials, Lewandowski is one of the most steadfast supporters of letting Trump be himself and believes that Wells and Lasivita have messed up. According to two sources familiar with the meeting, in August, Lewandowski had a meeting with Trump and suggested that the Republican candidate fire the entire campaign leadership. Trump did not make any commitments, but nodded and listened to his advice. Wells and Lasivita soon had a meeting with Trump, claiming that Lewandowski was distracting and derailing the campaign. Wells told him that what they had been doing was effective and now was not the time to deviate. Trump agreed. On the next trip, he held a meeting with everyone, including Lewandowski, and in the final weeks of the campaign, Lewandowski was set aside and no longer served as an advisor, basically only appearing on cable news.

Harris’ momentum seems to have continued into September. She won the only debate between the two candidates, causing Trump to make mistakes. “We are very concerned internally that she is a more powerful opponent than we realize, and the situation has changed,” a senior Trump official said. But a week later, when polls showed that the debate had hardly changed the election results and the candidates were tied in the polls, the campaign team breathed a sigh of relief. Trump returned to his mantra: step up efforts to win young male voters. Several sources told Time that at the end of July, Wells commissioned 27-year-old Republican consultant Alex Bruesewitz to provide Trump with a list of online podcast celebrities who would be willing to be interviewed. The next morning, Bruesewitz and another senior Trump adviser, Daniel Alvarado, found Trump at the golf course.

“I have a podcast list I want to recommend to you,” Bruce said. Trump interrupted, “Have you talked to Barron about this?” he asked, referring to his 18-year-old son.

“No, sir,” Brucewitz replied.

“Call Bannon, see what he thinks, and then tell me,” Trump said before hanging up the phone. Later that evening, Brucevitz contacted Bannon and learned that he particularly liked Adin Ross, a provocateur known for collaborating with celebrities to live stream video games (such as NBA 2K and Grand Theft Auto). They both agreed that Trump should start from here. The podcast strategy is being implemented.

In August, Trump appeared on Ross’s podcast, which quickly became popular and gained millions of views during the live broadcast. Over the next few weeks, Trump gave a series of flattering interviews, all to young male podcast hosts: Logan Paul, Theo Von, Joe Rogan. The campaign team deliberately avoided interviews with most traditional media outlets.

Trump has taken an unconventional approach to outsiders. Kennedy claimed that he had made a letter to Robert Jr. F. Kennedy defused a potential third-party threat by offering control of health care policy in exchange for him withdrawing from the campaign and supporting him. The campaign has outsourced its most labor-intensive field operations in key swing states to organizations like Turning Point USA and America First Works. In the final weeks of the campaign, billionaire Elon Musk poured more than $100 million into his own political action committee to help Trump work in swing states. Musk, who has pledged to lead a new “government efficiency commission” that will oversee the myriad federal agencies that oversee his company, has hired staff and incentivized them to reach out to voters by paying them. He personally camped in Pennsylvania, which was considered a key battleground state by both sides, and he handed out checks for $1 million to registered voters who signed the petition. Musk also turned his social media platform X into a melting pot of conspiracy theories and described the stakes of the campaign to his more than 200 million followers. In the final weeks of the election, he unveiled the far-right conspiracy theory that the Democrats are “importing” undocumented immigrants to swing states in order to irreversibly tilt the election map in their favor. “If Trump can’t win,” Musk said, “it’s the last election.”

As usual, Trump’s self-destructive impulse has brought challenges. In the week and a bit before election day, he fulfilled a lifelong dream by holding a rally at Madison Square Garden in New York. Trump’s warm-up speakers delivered speeches full of hatred, xenophobia, and racism. Trump’s campaign team brought in a group of vulgar boxers, including insult comedian Tony Sinclaire, who called Puerto Rico a “floating garbage dump.” According to two sources familiar with the matter, the campaign team did not vet his remarks or upload them to a teleprompter before his routine speech.

Former Trump campaign manager John Kelly recently publicly stated that Trump had praised Hitler’s generals. Retired General Mark Milley, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called him a ‘total fascist.’ Internal polling by the Harris campaign team shows that the repulsive atmosphere of the rallies tends to sway late-deciding voters in her favor. Trump seems to be on the verge of a breakdown at the last minute.

Just past 9 p.m. on election night, Trump walked into the banquet hall at Mar-a-Lago, filled with his wealthy donors, and the cheers were deafening. Behind him were his family, including his son Eric and daughter-in-law Lara, as well as his youngest son Barron. Over the next three and a half hours, he and Musk and White gleefully watched the election results exceed even his most optimistic supporters’ predictions.

Trump’s transition team is packed with loyal followers, such as former Cabinet Secretary Linda McMahon, businessman Howard Lutnik, his sons Donald and Eric, and his running mate Pence, all of whom are tasked with ensuring that only true believers can join his incoming government. It is expected that he will use the organizational networks that have been preparing to implement his ideas, including his former director of the Office of Management and Budget and head of the American Renaissance Center, Las Watt, who has been drafting executive order drafts that Trump can sign in the first few hours of his presidency.

The first and most aggressive agenda item is expected to be immigration and border issues. In an interview with Time magazine, Trump said he plans to use executive power to begin large-scale deportation of undocumented immigrants, ordering the National Guard, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and federal law enforcement to conduct raids. According to campaign sources, former Trump official Tom Homan, now affiliated with the 2025 Project, is expected to lead this effort.

Meanwhile, Trump’s senior advisors told Time magazine that there will be a massive purge of federal bureaucracies. They said the most satisfying part for Trump will be firing special prosecutor Jack Smith, who accused Trump of mishandling classified information and plotting to overturn the 2020 election.

Trump’s most controversial moves are almost certain to face significant legal and political battles. He vowed during the campaign to pick an attorney general to investigate and prosecute his political opponents and critics. Last summer, a Supreme Court ruling emboldened Trump, granting the U.S. president the possibility of immunity from certain criminal prosecutions for official acts. Authoritarian scholars argue that a country is on the brink of crisis, given Trump’s psychological tendencies, his vows of retaliation against opponents, and the removal of many obstacles that hindered him in his first term.

In the final analysis, elections are a judgment on the American people and the president they have chosen once again. Trump’s comeback is not accidental. By initiating a social and political movement, Trump gained mandatory power over the Republican Party, systematically dismantling many long-standing norms in the United States and attracting a group of sycophants who will satisfy his most dictatorial impulses. He will enter a second term dedicated to creating a governance environment with almost no limits on his power. He makes no secret of this. This is what the American people have decided they want.

On April 12th, former President Donald Trump conducted a wide-ranging interview with Time magazine at his Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, Florida, and followed up with a phone interview on April 27th.

In the interview, Trump discussed his agenda for his second term, which includes deporting millions of people, reducing the number of US government employees, and intervening more directly in the Department of Justice’s prosecutions than his predecessor. He also discussed his views on other issues, including abortion, crime, trade, Ukraine, Israel, and the prospects of political violence in this election cycle.

The following is the interview record of Trump with Eric Cortellessa, national political reporter of Time magazine. For clarity, Time made slight edits to the interview content.

Let’s start from day one: January 20, 2025. You said that you would take a series of positive actions on border and immigration issues-

Donald Trump: Yes.

You swear to–

Trump: There are still energy issues.

Yes, yes. We will definitely talk about this. You swore to launch the largest eviction operation in American history. Your advisors said this includes -

Trump: Because we have no other choice. I don’t think a country can afford the situation we’re going through, there may be 15 to 20 million people, even up to 20 million people when Biden steps down. 20 million people, many of them from prisons, many from mental hospitals. I mean, look at what’s happening in Venezuela and other countries. They’re becoming more secure.

Okay, let’s talk - you mentioned a large-scale eviction operation. I want to know specifically how you plan to do it.

Trump: If you look back at the 1950s, Dwight Eisenhower was not known for this, you wouldn’t think of him this way. Because you see, Eric, but Dwight Eisenhower attached great importance to preventing illegal immigrants from entering our country. He deported a large number of illegal immigrants. He did it for a long time, very skillfully. He took them to the other side of the border, and a few days later they came back. Then he started taking them 3000 miles away -

What are your plans, sir?

Trump: We will use the power of local law enforcement. We will definitely start with the number of criminals entering the country, which is unprecedented. We have indeed encountered a new type of crime. This crime is called immigration crime. This crime, um, you often see it. In New York, they have physical conflicts with the police. And it gets worse. You often see it. You can see it in all cities, especially in cities governed by the Democratic Party, many of which are large cities, but the situation in Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles is worse than elsewhere.

Does this involve the use of the US military?

Trump: Yes. When we talk about the military, we generally mean the National Guard. I have used the National Guard in Minneapolis. If I didn’t use it, I think Minneapolis would have been burned to the ground right now, because the situation was so bad. But I think that’s the National Guard you’re talking about. But if it got to a point where we couldn’t control it, we could call in the military. And then you’d have a National Guard and you’d have a military. And we’d have a very powerful military, and we’d have a very powerful National Guard too. But we have to be very careful. We have to take care of our country. We have to take care of our states. That’s all I’m doing. And I think the National Guard is equipped to handle it. But if they ever want to use the military, I’m ready to use the military. We just can’t let people do damage to our cities and our states.

Will you deploy the military in inland and border areas?

Trump: I don’t think I have to do this. I think the National Guard can handle it. If they can’t, then I will use the military. You know, our situation is different. We now have millions of people that we didn’t have two years ago.

Sir, according to the Militia Act, the use of the US military against civilians is prohibited. Will you ignore this provision?

TRUMP: Well, these people are not civilians. They are not people who have entered our country legally. This is an invasion of our country. This kind of invasion is probably something that no country has ever seen. They poured in in millions. I believe we have 15 million people now. I think by the end of this thing, you’ll have 20 million people. That’s more than the population of almost every state.

So you can see yourself using the military to solve this problem?

Trump: I can see myself using the National Guard, if necessary, I must go further. We must make every effort to stop the problems we face. Again, our country is assembling a powerful force, and in the past three weeks, 29000 people have poured in from China, most of whom are under the legal age and male. Yes, you must take necessary measures to stop crime and stop what is happening at the border.

Does this include building new immigration detention camps?

TRUMP: We don’t need to do much. Because we’re going to take them out of the country. We will not leave them in the country. We’ll take them out. I’ve done this before.

Will you build new ones?

Trump: Obama did it in the form of a prison, you know, a prison. I took four months of criticism for this. Later, people realized it was him, not me.

So, do you exclude the possibility of building new immigration detention camps?

Trump: No, I will not rule out any possibility. But in fact, we are about to move them out, so we don’t need so many detention camps. We want to take them back where they came from.

The reason I ask is that your close aide and advisor, Stephen Miller, has indicated that part of the work in carrying out this deportation will include the construction of new immigrant detention camps.

Trump: We may do so to some extent, but we don’t have to do too much, because once we start taking action, we will drive them out. Obviously, we will start with the criminals. We will use local police, because they know their names, middle names, and third names. I mean, they know them very well.

How do you plan to involve state and local police departments? What authority does the president have to do this?

Trump: Some people may not want to participate because they do not want to share wealth. We must do this. This issue is not sustainable for our country.

Does this mean you will provide funding incentives for state and local police departments from the federal government?

Trump: It’s very likely. I want to exempt the police from prosecution because liberal groups or progressive groups (depending on what they want to be called, a bit liberal, a bit progressive) are very insistent. They want everyone to join in, I don’t know. You know, sanctuary cities are failing everywhere. I really believe that those who support sanctuary cities also have a long-suppressed emotion and want to end sanctuary cities because it’s simply not feasible for the country.

So, according to your own words, these are the new, bold, and proactive actions you are going to take.

Trump: I don’t think they are bold actions. I think they are common-sense actions. But I really believe, Eric, that these actions - they allow so many people to enter our country, it’s unbelievable, especially considering that most of them are unchecked or unverified. They just pour in. The number of people pouring in is something no country has ever seen. It’s an invasion of our country.

**Okay, let me put it this way: they are new immigrants and will definitely be tested in court. If the court rules against you, do you promise to abide by all court orders supported by the Supreme Court?

Trump: I will comply with the court order. I will act in a very legal way, just like when I built the isolation wall. You know, I built a huge wall, which gave us a lot of data. I am willing to do far more than I said. Both in the past and now - they should complete that wall. I have done what I said, and much more than I imagined. But when you do it, you will find that you need to build more walls in different places, and people once thought you couldn’t do it - you don’t need to do it.

However, to be frank, I found it hard to believe for the first time that Biden wanted to open the border. It just didn’t make sense. The first time I really saw this was when he didn’t want to install the already built wall, which could have been dismantled, and the additional work of hundreds of miles could have been completed in three weeks.

I want to talk about your plan to build a wall in a short period of time, but let’s go back to the previous topic. So, do you promise to abide by all the orders of the Supreme Court? All the orders supported by the Supreme Court?

Trump: Yes, of course I will comply. I have great respect for the Supreme Court.

Let’s talk about the border wall again, because in the last term, you tried to negotiate with Democrats Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer on border funding and had the opportunity to get $25 billion. But the negotiations failed. In the end, only $1.4 billion was obtained——

Trump: But with this 25 billion dollars, things become unacceptable.

Compilation of ‘Dream Chaser’ Protection

Trump: Well, there are a lot of other things. There are a lot of bad things. Of course, they gave you money to build the wall. You know, I basically took the money from the military. I think it’s an invasion of our country, and I’m from–01928374656574839201

So my question is, what are you going to do in your second term? Are you going to use federal funds to continue building the border wall on the first day? Are you planning to legislate? What are you going to do?

Trump: What I think we need to do is complete – when you say complete the wall with me, the wall I built is much more than I thought. But in the process of building it, you will find that you need it. We built it and then found that there are loopholes in certain places, and they will leak. Just like politicians leaking secrets, they will leak too. We discovered this problem, then built it, and then built other things. It’s just a system, and we have a good system. We could have added another 200 miles of wall and good territory. Because the wall is really useful, you know, the wall and the wheel. I will say, you know, a lot of things, look at what you have here, your recorder, other things will be outdated in about six months. You will have better things. But there are two things that will never be outdated, that is the wall and the wheel.

The words you just said. You said, ‘We hope to protect the police from prosecution.’ What do you mean by that?

Trump: The police - their authority is being taken away. If they get into trouble, even if they do well, they will have their houses and pensions confiscated. I mean, they will ultimately lose their families because of this. They are deprived of everything. They sue others. We must give the police the power and respect they deserve. Now, there will inevitably be some mistakes, and there will inevitably be some bad people, which is very bad. But the current situation is worse. When a department store is being robbed, the police stand outside while 500 young people swagger out of the store with air conditioners, TVs, and other things. The police want to take action. But they are told not to interfere. They are told not to bother. If you intervene, if you stop the crime, we will threaten your pension, your house, your family, your wife or husband. You know, the police are often sued. We hope that if they do their duty, they will be exempt from prosecution.

Would you try to pass a law in Congress?

Trump: I’m sorry.

Will you push the Congress to pass a bill to do this?

Trump: We’ll see.

Let’s turn to the economy, sir. You impose a 10% tariff on all imported goods and over 60% on Chinese imports. Can I ask you now: is this your plan?

Trump: There may be more. It may only be part of it. But there are always people – look at them when they come in, they steal our jobs, they steal our wealth, they steal our country.

However, you said more than that: Are you saying a tariff of more than 10% is levied on all imported goods?

Trump: More than 10%, yes. I call it ‘circular tariffs.’ We have a circular country. In addition to what we said, there are reciprocal taxes. If we do this, the numbers are amazing. I don’t think it will have a big impact because they make a lot of money from us. And I don’t think the cost will pump that much. Many people say, ‘Oh, that will be on our taxes.’ I don’t believe it. I think it’s taxing the country. I know. I’ve made billions of dollars from China. No one has ever done anything to China before. I also let people know about the threat from China. China makes five to six hundred billion dollars a year. No one mentioned China before me. The situation in Detroit is very sad because the mandatory requirements for electric vehicles are ridiculous because they can’t go very far. They are too expensive, and they will be produced in China. They will all be produced in China.

Mr. President, most economists - I know not all, there is no consensus on this issue - but most economists say tariffs will raise prices.

Trump: Yes.

Would you be willing to accept Inflation?

Trump: No, I’ve seen it. I’ve seen some - I don’t think this will lead to Inflation. I think it’s a win for our country. Because what will happen is, other countries will do very well, and China is a standout. India is tough to deal with. India - I get along very well with Modi, but it’s tough on the trade front. Frankly, France is very tough to deal with on trade. Brazil is also very tough to deal with on trade. Their approach is to impose high import tariffs. They say, we don’t want you to ship cars to Brazil, or to China or India. But if you want to build a factory in our country and hire our workers, that’s fine. That’s basically what I’m doing. I’m doing it, and doing it forcefully, but just as we were getting ready to really go, we were hit with the China virus. We have to solve that problem. Ultimately, the stock market has performed much better than when the China virus first appeared. But if you look at our initial performance, the numbers are amazing. No economy has ever -

Sir, there is no doubt that the economic situation was indeed very good during your first term. However, Moody’s did say that the trade war between you and China cost the US economy 3160 billion dollars and 300,000 jobs. [Editor’s note: The estimate of 3160 billion dollars was made by Bloomberg Economics, not Moody’s.]

Trump: Yes. Moody doesn’t know what they’re talking about. We have the strongest economy in history. Moody also admits this. If we have such a good economy, how could we be losing? Everyone acknowledges this. If we didn’t do this, we wouldn’t have a steel industry now. They dumped steel into this country. I imposed a 50% tariff on steel. Tariffs will be increased. The people who love me the most are businesses, especially those in the steel industry. They love me because I saved their industry. The bosses and executives of steel companies cry when they see me. They say no one helped us before you came. China dumped a large amount of steel into our country. We saved the steel industry.

Do you think businesses will pass on the tax costs to consumers?

Trump: No, I don’t think so. I think this will cost the country - I think their income will decrease. In fact, I think the taxed country’s income will decrease. I don’t believe -

Don’t you believe that companies will pass on costs?

Trump: No, I think the situation is something you created. The way to get out of this whole situation is to ultimately create, not import products from China, because of the extra cost, you end up producing products in the United States. Traditionally, that’s how it is. If you look at what happened. If you look at China, they don’t want our cars. They charge us huge fees. Look at India. India is a good example. I get along very well with the representatives of the Indian people. Modi is a good guy, he is doing what he has to do. But we had some problems with Harley-Davidson, so I had people from Harley-Davidson come to the White House. I said, ‘How are you guys doing lately? Is business good? Everything okay?’ I said, ‘Out of curiosity, how are you dealing with India?’ ‘Not good.’ Now remember, this was five years ago, four years ago, they said, 'Not good. We can’t do business with India because they charge us such high tariffs, over 100%. At that price, you know, consumers will collapse and won’t be able to buy. They said, ‘But they are willing to do anything for us to establish a Harley-Davidson factory in India. They don’t want us to sell motorcycles to India, but they do want us to build a factory.’ I said, ‘Well, I’m not too happy about that.’ But in the end, it happened. They built a factory in India. Now there are no tariffs, and we want to do the same thing. We want to build a factory here. Something is happening now that no one is talking about, maybe they don’t know, but I have a friend, he builds car factories. That’s what he does. If you ask him to build a simple apartment somewhere, he doesn’t know how to do it. But he can build a factory, millions of square feet, the largest factory in the world. He is amazing. I said to him, ‘I want to see your factory.’ He said to me, ‘Are you ready to go to Mexico? Are you ready to go to China?’ I said, ‘No, I want to see it here.’ He said, ‘We actually don’t build the big factories here, the big factories are built in Mexico or China.’ China is now building factories in Mexico and producing cars for the United States. These factories are the largest in the world. If I were president, this wouldn’t happen because I would impose 100% tariffs on them. Because I won’t allow them to steal our other businesses. You have to know that Mexico has already taken away 31% of our car manufacturing and car business. And China’s share is even greater. We only have a small share in this business, and then you have a poor fool, like this gentleman in the United Auto Workers Union, who agrees that we produce pure electric cars, which is really sad because pure electric cars are not what consumers want.

Sir, I understand your position -

Trump: By the way, I have no opinion on pure electric vehicles. I think it’s great. You can buy electric vehicles, I think it’s great. They don’t run far. They have problems. They don’t work in cold weather. They don’t work in hot weather. There are many problems. When I was in Iowa, there were electric vehicles everywhere. They are all over the streets. The temperature on the night of the Iowa caucuses was minus 40 degrees.

I was with you at that time.

Trump: That’s right. I’ve never heard of such low temperatures.

I want to clarify what you just said: Are you considering imposing a 100% tariff on imported goods from China and Mexico?

Trump: I didn’t say that. They impose 100% tariffs on us. But their tariffs are much higher than that. India imposes higher tariffs on us. Brazil imposes very, very high tariffs on us. I ask people, who is the toughest to deal with? I won’t tell you because I don’t want to insult these countries, because I actually get along with them very well. But you will be surprised. The European Union is very tough on us. They don’t accept our foreign products. They don’t accept our cars. We accept Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, and BMW. They don’t accept our cars. If we want to sell Chevrolet, or even want to sell a beautiful Cadillac CTS, if we want to sell our cars to Germany, for example, they won’t accept.

We’ll come back to the topic of Europe later.

Trump: I said to Angela Merkel, ‘Angela, how many Chevrolets are there in downtown Berlin?’ She said none. I said, ‘You are right. But we buy your cars, including relatively inexpensive cars like Volkswagen.’ I said, ‘Do you think this is fair?’ She said, ‘It may not be fair, but no one has ever brought this up until you appeared.’

**Sir, you have criticized Israel’s way of waging war against Hamas. In a recent interview, you said Israel needs to “end the war” and “restore normalcy”.

Trump: Yes.

So as president, would you consider stopping military aid to Israel to force it to end the war?

Trump: Okay. Let me start from the inside. [Ask the assistant to turn down the air conditioning.] I don’t have to start from scratch. But as you know, Iran was bankrupt at the time. Iran is–

No, I know, but can you——

Trump: No, but think about how great a job I’ve done. This wouldn’t have happened. You wouldn’t have - Hamas has no money. You know?

I understand, sir, I just want to know——

Trump: No, but I hope I can point out. During my tenure, there were reports that Iran had no money for anyone - very little terrorism. We didn’t. I had four years - we had no terrorism. We didn’t have the World Trade Center destroyed. You know, Bush once said, ‘Well, we’re a safe country.’ I said they destroyed the World Trade Center during your term. Do you remember that debate? That was a good example. But this is a fact, absolutely. But we didn’t experience terrorism - we got rid of ISIS 100%. Now they’re starting to come back.

I want to know - you said you want Israel to end the war. You said you need to “settle this.” What are you going to do? Would you consider stopping aid?

Trump: I think Israel has done a very bad job in public relations. I don’t think the Israel Defense Fund or any other organization should be posting photos of buildings collapsing every night, and there may still be people inside these buildings, and they do this every night.

So you do not rule out the possibility of suspending or limiting assistance?

Trump: No, we must do this. Listen, no president has been as supportive of Israel as I have. Look at everything I’ve done, first and foremost is the Iran nuclear protocol. You know, Netanyahu begged Obama not to reach this protocol. I terminated this protocol. If they were smart and energetic, apart from trying to woo Trump, they could have reached the protocol, because they were in a weak position at the time. They should have reached the protocol with Iran. They didn’t prosecute. They didn’t reach the protocol. But I did the Golan Heights.

You did it.

Trump: No one even thought about the Golan Heights. I gave them the Golan Heights. I made the embassy in Jerusalem. Jerusalem became the capital. I built the embassy.

Yes.

Trump: This embassy is very beautiful and cost less than anyone could imagine. You’ve heard of it too. But no president has done what I’ve done in Israel. Interestingly, the Israeli people appreciate this. My approval rating is as high as 98%, the highest.

Do you know whose support rate is currently not high in Israel?

Trump: compare.

Yes. Do you think he should step down?

Trump: Well, I had an unpleasant experience with Bibi. It’s related to Soleimani, because as you may know, he pulled out before the attack. I said, ‘What’s going on?’ Because it was a joint operation, and all of a sudden, we were told that Israel doesn’t do it. I was very unhappy about that. I’ll never forget it. It taught me something. I want to say that what happened on October 7th shouldn’t have happened.

It happened during his tenure.

Trump: No, it happened during his tenure. I think, despite all of this happening, it had a profound effect on him. Because people will say, that shouldn’t have happened. They have the most advanced equipment. They could have stopped all of this. Many people know about this, thousands of people know, but Israel doesn’t know, and I think he bears the primary responsibility for this. Now there’s another hostage incident -

Has his era passed?

Trump: I happen to think that, in terms of hostages, when you go and get a hostage, you have to get him back. They talk about all of these hostages. I don’t believe they have the competence or the intention of taking care of the hostages in negotiation. I don’t believe that - I think the number of hostages will be greatly reduced, far lower than people think, which is a very sad thing.

Do you think your cooperation with Benny Gantz in the second term will be better than your cooperation with Benjamin Netanyahu?

Trump: I think Beni Gantz is good, but I don’t want to say that. I haven’t talked to him about this yet. But I know some very capable people in Israel, they can do well.

What do you think -----

Trump: It’s only natural that Netanyahu would be criticized for what happened on October 7th.

Do you think the outcome of the war between Israel and Hamas should be a two-state solution between the Israeli and Palestinian people?

Trump: Most people think this will be a two-state solution. I’m not sure if a two-state solution is still feasible. Everyone is talking about two states, even me. I say, ‘What do you like here? Do you like the two-state solution?’ Now people are back to–it depends on where you are. Now it’s changing every day. If Israel makes progress, they don’t want a two-state solution. They want everything. If Israel doesn’t make progress, sometimes they talk about a two-state solution. The two-state solution seems to be the most popular idea, policy, or concept.

Do you like it?

Trump: It depends on when. There was a time when I thought the two-state solution was feasible. Now I think it’s going to be very, very difficult. I think it would be even more difficult to implement. I also think there are fewer people who like the idea. Four years ago, there were a lot of people who liked the idea. Today, there are fewer people who like it.

You said——

Trump; may have no other ideas. You know, some people say this situation is the most difficult to solve, the most difficult to solve.

Yes, absolutely.

Trump: Because children are taught to hate Jews when they grow up, the depth of hatred is unimaginable. I have a fren, a very good fren, Sheldon Adelson, who thinks that reaching a protocol is impossible because the level of hatred is too deep. I think the hatred on both sides is much greater, but the hatred towards Jews is very strong, and it has been so since kindergarten. He feels this - he is a great trader. He is a very rich person. He is rich because he has the ability to trade. He loves Israel above all else. He loves Israel, and he wants to protect Israel. He feels that it is impossible to reach a protocol due to the depth of hatred.

Do you have this feeling now too?

Trump: I disagree. But so far, he hasn’t been wrong.

You have said that you are proud to be the first president in several generations not to involve the United States in a war. You briefly touched on this issue at a press conference. But if Iran and Israel go to war, would you stand with Israel?

Trump: I am very loyal to Israel, more loyal than any other president. I have done more for Israel than any other president. Yes, I will protect Israel.

You said this week that the issue of abortion should be decided by each state and that you will not sign a federal ban. So I want to confirm: Will you veto any federal legislation that imposes restrictions on abortion?

Trump: You don’t need a federal ban. We just got rid of the federal ban. You know, if you go back to Roe v. Wade, the focus of Roe v. Wade was more about bringing it back to the states rather than abortion itself. So, the states will negotiate and make deals. Florida will be different from Georgia, and Georgia will be different from other places. But that’s the situation now. It’s very interesting. But please remember, for the past 53 years, every legal scholar has pointed out from a legal perspective that the issue of abortion belongs to the jurisdiction of state governments. Now, the situation is starting to move in that direction. People are starting to follow 15 weeks, 5 weeks, or 6 weeks and starting to follow the deadlines. They suddenly start to decide the definition of abortion.

People want to know, if a bill is presented to you, would you veto it? This is really important to many voters.

Trump: But you have to remember one thing, this will never happen because it will never happen. You will never get 60 votes. Neither the Democratic nor the Republican Party can do it in many years to come. Currently, it’s basically 50-50. I think we have a chance to get a few seats, but a few seats means we get 51 or 52 seats. We still have a long way to go. So this will not happen because you won’t get those seats. Well. That being said, it depends on the states, it depends on the power of the states. States will make their own decisions.

What do you think?

Trump: You know what? This relieves a huge amount of pressure for everyone. But we – the definition is unclear. Honestly, many Republicans, a lot of Republicans, don’t know how to talk about this issue. This issue has never affected me.

So, to be clear: if the federal restriction - the federal abortion restriction, you wouldn’t commit to vetoing the bill?

Trump: I don’t have to promise a veto, because it will never happen - first, it will never happen. Second, it’s about the rights of the states. You don’t want to go back to the federal government. It’s all about getting rid of the federal government. Eric, this has been resolved because - this has been resolved, in the past week, this issue has been greatly simplified. It was originally about getting rid of the federal government. The last thing you want to do is go back to the federal government. States are working hard to resolve this issue. Look at Ohio. Ohio has passed some bills that have surprised people. Kansas, I mean, these places are conservative Trump states, Ohio and Kansas, all these states, but they passed what they wanted to pass. It’s about the rights of the states.

I understand, sir. Your allies in the Republican Study Committee (representing about 80% of the Republican core group) have included the “Conception of Life Act” in their 2025 budget proposal. This bill will grant full legal rights to embryos. Is this also your position?

Trump: Say it again. What?

The “Conception of Life Act” will give embryos full legal rights, including in their 2025 budget proposal. Is this your position?

Trump: I will leave everything to the states. The situations in different states will vary. Some will agree, some will oppose. The situations in Texas and Ohio are different.

Will you veto the bill?

Trump: I don’t have to do anything about the veto power, because we have now restored the veto power in various states.

Okay.

Trump: They will make these decisions.

Do you think women should have access to the abortion pill Mifepristone?

Trump: Well, I have an opinion on this, but I won’t explain it. I’m not going to say it right now. But I have a very strong opinion on this. I might announce it next week.

Mr. President, this is a big issue because your allies are calling for the enforcement of the Constock Act, which prohibits the mailing of drugs for abortion. The Biden Justice Department did not enforce this act. Will your Justice Department enforce it?

Trump: I will make a statement on this in the next 14 days.

Can you?

Trump: Yes, I have an important statement on this. I am very firm on this. In fact, I believe this is a very important issue.

Understood. You think this issue should be left to the states to handle. You have made it very clear. If the states decide to punish women who have abortions after it is banned, would you feel comfortable?

Trump: How many weeks are you referring to?

Yes. Assuming the time limit for abortion is 15 weeks—

Trump: Say it again, this will be - I don’t have to feel comfortable or uncomfortable. States will make the decision. States must feel comfortable or uncomfortable, not me.

Do you think states should monitor women’s pregnancies to know if they have had abortions after the ban?

Trump: I think they may do so. Similarly, you must communicate with the states. The Roe v. Wade case is about returning the right to abortion to the states. This is both a legal decision and possibly a moral decision for some people. But mainly, it is a legal decision. Every legal scholar, Democrat, Republican, and others hope to return this issue to the states. It should be noted that the Roe v. Wade case has long been considered a very bad law. Very bad. From a legal perspective, this is a very bad issue. People are surprised that it has lasted so long. All I can do is to select some very outstanding people, frankly, they are very brave, and the judges are ultimately Republicans.

Each state will decide whether they are satisfied–

Trump: Yes, each state—

Sue women who have abortions after the ban. But are you satisfied with this?

Trump: It’s up to the states. Whether I’m satisfied is not important. It’s totally unimportant because the states will make the decisions. By the way, the situation in Texas will be different from that in Ohio. The situation in Ohio will also be different from that in Michigan. I see what’s happening.

President Trump, we are in Florida. You are a resident of Florida.

Trump: Yes.

How do you plan to vote in the November abortion referendum in this state, which will overturn DeSantis’ six-week ban?

Trump: Well, I’ve said that I think six weeks is too harsh.

You did say.

Trump: I did say that before.

Yes.

Trump: I think when I made this statement, it was quite controversial, but as time went by, the controversy diminished. I think Ron was seriously hurt when people - even conservative women in Florida - thought…

Hmm, this referendum will change everything. Will you vote for it in November?

Trump: Well, this will have other implications. I won’t tell you how I will vote. I can only tell you that the state government will make the decision.

Okay, sir. Violent crime across the country is on the decline. It has decreased by 6% ——

Trump: I don’t believe.

You don’t believe?

Trump: Yes, this is fake data.

Is that what you think?

Trump: Well, this was announced last night. The Federal Bureau of Investigation provided false figures.

I didn’t see it, but the FBI said it dropped by 13% in 2023. [Editor’s note: This statistic specifically refers to homicide cases.

Trump: I don’t believe it. This is a lie. This is fake news.

Sir, this data is collected by police departments from all states and localities nationwide. The majority of them support you. Are they wrong?

Trump: Yes. Last night. Well, maybe, maybe not. The FBI tampered with data, and others tampered with data. The crime rate could not have dropped last year. Impossible, because there are immigrant crimes. Did they include immigrant crimes? Or do they consider it a different form of crime?

So are these local police stations wrong?

Trump: I don’t think this is from the local police department. What I see is the FBI providing false numbers.

Okay. So, if elected, would you instruct your attorney general to prosecute your state officials, such as Alvin Bragg and Fani Willis?

Trump: Well, we will scrutinize many things like they did. What they did was terrible. No, I don’t want to do that. Looking at Clinton, I’m not happy. I think it’s a terrible thing. But unfortunately, what they did was just open the lid, and what they did to me was unbelievable. Baseless.

You said Alvin Bragg should be prosecuted. Will you instruct the Attorney General to prosecute him?

Trump: When did I say Alvin Bragg should be prosecuted?

It’s at a meeting.

Trump: I don’t remember saying that.

I can call it up.

Trump: No.

So, to be clear: you will not instruct the Attorney General to prosecute Alvin Bragg?

Trump: We will achieve tremendous returns through success. We will lead our country to success again. Our returns will be realized through the success of the nation.

Would you fire a US prosecutor who refused a direct order to prosecute someone who didn’t sue you? Him or her?

Trump: To be honest, it depends on the situation.

So what do you think?

Trump: It depends on the situation. Yes.

Well, sir, you said you would appoint a truly special prosecutor to investigate Biden and his family——

Trump: It depends on the Supreme Court’s ruling. The president should have immunity, including Biden. If they rule that he does not have immunity, then Biden may be sued for 20 different actions because he created these actions. You not only have to look at his receiving a large amount of money, his criminal behavior of becoming the Manchurian candidate. Also, look at what happened in Afghanistan. Look at what happened around the world. Look at how he allowed Russia to take action against Ukraine. This would never happen to me, and it didn’t happen either. And I know Putin very well.

President Trump, isn’t it usual for political opponents to attack each other in the Banana Republic?

Trump: That’s it now. Yes.

Okay——

Trump: No, no, no, no. Eric, this is it now. I have to - in fact, we’re doing this today because Monday is a little tough because I have to go to criminal court on Monday.

No mistake.

Trump: About a non-criminal case. This is not even a criminal case. As I said, if you go to Andy McCarthy, or Jonathan Turley, two real experts, or go to all the law scholars who have written books, they will say, this is not even a criminal case. I have a judge, his contradictions are greater than any judge anyone has ever seen. He is a little man who hates Trump. Look at what happened there. You just asked me, you know, you just asked me a question, but they treated me like this!

Okay, sir, one thing clear——

Trump: Wait a minute, I haven’t had the chance to do this to them. I tend not to do that. I don’t want to do that to them. But this largely depends on the Supreme Court. We are going to the Supreme Court in two weeks. They will rule on presidential immunity. If they say the president has no immunity, then I believe Biden will be prosecuted for all crimes because he has committed many crimes. If they indicate that the president has immunity, and I happen to believe that the president must have immunity, otherwise it is just a ceremonial position. But Biden has done a lot of terrible things. I’m not even talking about obvious crimes. I’m talking about the border issue, allowing death and destruction at the border.

Sir -

Trump: Allowing all of these things to happen. If the president does not have the power of pardon. So when you ask me this question, it depends on the decision of the Supreme Court.

Regarding this issue, your lawyer John Shol recently argued in court that if you as the president order the SEALs to assassinate political opponents, you should not be prosecuted. Do you agree with your lawyer’s point of view?

Trump: Well, my understanding is different. I think this is a political opponent from another country. I think my understanding is different, I’m not sure. John Shaw also said that you have to go through impeachment first and then make a decision based on impeachment. But Mr. President, if you don’t have immunity from prosecution, a very powerful immunity from prosecution. Now, if you do something very bad and stupid, that’s another situation. This may be one of them.

Understood. So, going back to what you just said, I would like to officially state that there is no evidence to suggest that President Biden instructed to prosecute you. But even if we—

Trump: Oh, of course.

Well, even if we stipulate——

Trump: I always hate it when journalists say these things. They clearly know it’s wrong. They’re just protecting themselves. But that’s not the case. His Attorney General, one of the few high-ranking officials, was assigned to the Department of Justice. Mr. Fani, Wade, Mr. Fani’s lover, spent a lot of time in Washington dealing with my case together with the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice worked with the crazy Jack Smith. He’s crazy and interested in my case. No, no, it’s all Biden’s fault -

But the problem is -

Trump: By the way, let me go a step further.

Okay.

Trump: In the case of me and a woman, I never - until she called, I didn’t know who she was. ‘Do you know her?’ I said, ‘This is her imagination.’

Are you referring to E. Jean Carroll?

Trump: And then I got sued. Before that, I didn’t know who this woman was, I had no relationship with her. This was done by a political lawyer in front of a judge who, for many reasons, had conflicts of interest and didn’t allow us to present evidence. He’s so bad, so evil. But I’ve encountered three judges like this in New York, three. This is what I’ve got. It’s a very unfair situation. They’re going after me, it’s called election interference. But what they’ve done goes beyond election interference, they’ve never seen anything like it, I’m a little surprised. You say Biden doesn’t know anything. Biden knows everything. Just like he knows nothing about Tucker and his business.

Even if we stipulate this, can two mistakes constitute correctness?

Trump: No, I don’t want to do anything related to… I don’t want to hurt Biden. I don’t want to hurt him. I respect this position too much. But he is willing to hurt a very popular former president who received 75 million votes. I received more votes than any sitting president in history. I currently have about eight cases inspired by them, including my civil case.

Medical insurance -

Jason Miller: Eric, the president will have dinner in 15 minutes. So how many minutes does he have left?

Trump: Are you staying? Do you want to have dinner with everyone?

Yes, yes. We only have 15 minutes left?

Trump: Yes, his dinner time is 7:15.

Since that’s the case, let’s quickly ask questions.

Trump: Okay. Do you think you could accept Biden’s interview?

You know, he didn’t agree. So I’m grateful to you for giving me this opportunity.

Trump: He will never agree, because he is wrong. He is way off base.

Let’s take a moment to talk about January 6th. You referred to the individuals charged for their actions on January 6th as ‘hostages’ and ‘political prisoners.’ Over 800 people have been sentenced through our judicial system, with the majority pleading guilty. Some of them have been convicted by juries. You mentioned that you would pardon them. Do you question the judiciary’s rulings on the over 800 cases?

Trump: This is a two-tier system. Because when I see Portland, Minneapolis, they occupy police stations and everything else, and rush to federal buildings, when I see other violent incidents, people are killed, and they have nothing to do. They have nothing to do. I think this is a dual judicial system. I think this is a very, very sad thing. Whether you like it or not, except for Ashley, no one else died.

Would you consider pardoning all of them?

Trump: I will consider it, yes.

Can you?

Trump: Yes, of course.

Okay then

Trump: If someone is an evil person, I will look at them differently. But many of these people were brought in, many were brought in. You can see from the video tape that the police brought them in. They walked with the police.

**I want to ask you another question about this. Some former allies and staff do not support your participation in this election and point out that you are trying to overturn the 2020 election. For those who like your policies but believe that those who attack the cornerstone of democracy (peaceful transfer of power) cannot be entrusted by democratic voters to uphold democracy, what do you have to say?

Trump: In fact, I did the opposite. I am the one who tried to stop it. I offered 10,000 soldiers, which Nancy Pelosi rejected. The mayor of Washington also rejected; she rejected it in writing.

However, what do you say to those voters?

Trump: I proposed it. First, I made a peaceful and patriotic speech, but nobody reported it. Nobody talked about peace and patriotism. Nobody talked about it. You know, the committee has never used these words. They refuse to allow the use of these words. Second, I have about five tweets, with content like ‘go back home’. I was disqualified because of these tweets.

No——

Trump: No, I was disqualified because of those tweets. The reason I was disqualified was not because I said anything bad, but because I said something good. Because when you read my tweets, listen to my speeches, and hear my statements in the Oval Office of the Rose Garden, you will know that in this very dramatic and terrible period, I am a very innocent person. Nancy Pelosi is responsible for this because she refused to accept the 10,000 soldiers or members of the National Guard I offered. She refused to accept them. The mayor of Washington also refused to accept them. They are responsible for the capital.

Speaking of this, looking forward to the future–

Trump: Another very scary thing they did was that the media refused to talk about it. They destroyed all the evidence.

Are you worried about political violence during the November 11th election this year?

Trump: No, I don’t think there will be political violence.

Don’t you expect anything?

Trump: I think we will achieve a major victory. I don’t think there will be violence.

Mr. President, you have talked a lot about the plan to eradicate Shen Zhou. What exactly does this mean?

Trump: This means we have to get rid of the bad people and the people who don’t perform well in the government. We treat these people like employees in a company. You know, when you buy a company, you go in and look at how the job is done? Job performance. They have job performance standards. Yes, we want to get rid of those who underperform. There are many such people.

What are you going to do? Your team is preparing to grant you the power through Annex F, allowing you to dismiss civil servants.

Trump: We are considering many different things. The civil service system has its advantages and disadvantages. Some protected individuals should not actually be protected. And some people are doing an excellent job, and you almost want to protect them. I know many civil servants, and they are all outstanding talents.

Would you hire someone who believes Joe Biden won the 2020 election?

Trump: I have no doubt that what we said is a fact. The news media, the fake news media, do not want to talk about this. You know, I sued the Pulitzer Foundation because of the eyewash of Russia, Russia, Russia, as they talked about this for two and a half years, but it turned out to be a complete eyewash. And then some writers won the Nobel Prize—

The Republican National Committee is conducting a loyalty test on its employees, asking them if they believe the election was stolen. Would you do this? [Editor’s note: According to reports, the Republican National Committee is asking job applicants this question, but it denies that it is an employment loyalty test.]

Trump: I’m not happy about this because I don’t think anyone would think the election was stolen. The facts are there. The scope of election fraud is very wide, and the state legislatures have not passed legislation. They must pass legislation. Take a close look, the scope is very broad, all kinds of different things. I can give you report after report about election fraud in one state after another, and if you’re really willing to listen, you’ll say I’m right.

I want to talk to you about your policy towards Russia and Ukraine right away, President Trump, but Evan Gerskovich has been detained in Russia for a year. Why haven’t you demanded his release?

Trump: I think it’s because I have a lot of things to do. I have hundreds of things to do. And I may have said a lot of good things about him. Maybe it hasn’t been reported. But I think he is a very brave young man.

Would you do this now?

Trump: Are you talking about The Wall Street Journal?

Yes.

Trump: Oh, I will certainly make the call. If you’re willing, I’ll make the call now to request that this be mentioned in your report.

Great.

Trump: But I do have a lot, a lot of things to do. The difference between me and Biden is: I will let him be released. He will be released. Putin will release him.

We can talk about it——

Trump: I think the relationship between Biden and Putin is very bad. Putin should not enter Ukraine. For four years, he has been in good relations with me. I get along well with Putin, but journalists should be released, and he will also be released. I don’t know if he will be released during Biden’s presidency.

But as a president, will you work hard to get him released?

Trump: Yes, I will let him be released.

You mentioned Russia–

Trump: I’m surprised Biden would do this. I’m not surprised by anything Biden does. But I think it sets a bad precedent. I’m surprised he hasn’t been released yet, but if he’s not released by the time we take office, I will have him released.

**Sir, you have said that for NATO countries that do not invest enough in defense, you are willing to let Russia “do as they please”. If Putin attacks a NATO country that you believe does not invest enough in defense, will the United States assist that country?

Trump: Yes, my words carry deep meaning because I want them to pay a price. I want them to pay. This was proposed as a negotiating condition. I said, listen, if you don’t pay, then good luck to you. I’m serious. Someone asked me: What if we don’t pay? This question was asked before this event. You know, after I said this, do you know that billions of dollars were invested in NATO? Do you know?

I know, sir. Secretary-General Stoltenberg appreciates this. He said you threatened to withdraw from NATO,

Trump: That’s right.

This has resulted in the allies investing an additional $100 billion in defense.

Trump: It was like that at the time and three years ago. You know, NATO - they have very little money left. They are cash-strapped, on the verge of bankruptcy, and we spend almost 100% of the money on NATO. We are protecting Europe. And they haven’t even paid.

The question is, will you——

Trump: Only 8 countries are paying. The rest of the countries are in arrears. I told them, if you don’t pay, then enjoy yourselves, but we won’t protect you. I said this a few weeks ago, two months ago. I said, if you don’t pay. Listen, this is how negotiators negotiate. I negotiate because I want them to pay. I hope Europe can pay. I hope nothing bad happens in Europe, I love Europe, I love the European people, I have a good relationship with Europe. But they take advantage of us, whether it’s in NATO or the Ukraine issue. We invest billions more in Ukraine than they do. It shouldn’t be like this. It should be the other way around. Because they are affected more. There is an ocean between us. They don’t have that. The reason why I’m saying this is for negotiation, and I’m doing well because billions of dollars have come in recently.

In an interview in 2016, you said, ‘To reform, you must be willing to let go.’

Trump: I said, for example, this issue was raised during a very secret meeting we held, but the media found out. There were 28 countries participating at the time. A gentleman stood up, who happened to be the head of a very important country. He said, ‘You’re saying’ because I said to him, ‘You don’t pay the bill, but we pay it for you. This is unfair. You hurt us in trade. What’s more, we’re still protecting you. Most of our money is spent on NATO and the United States.’ I said this is unfair. The man stood up and said, ‘Are you saying if we don’t pay the bill, if we don’t pay the bill, Russia will attack us and you won’t protect us?’ I said, that’s exactly what I mean.

After saying this, billions of dollars flooded in. It’s like magic. Obama has never said such words. Obama goes to give a speech and then leaves. Bush goes to give a speech and then leaves. I looked at the data and said, wait a minute, the United States is paying for NATO. We pay nearly 100% of NATO’s expenses.

But the problem is, sir–

Trump: We have not been treated fairly because we have been treated badly in trade by most countries.

So, it seems that you want to renegotiate the terms of the treaty. What do you want to…

Trump: No, I just want them to pay. I don’t need to renegotiate. Just like Biden. Biden has the right to close the border immediately. He doesn’t need anything from Congress. NATO is the same. I don’t need to renegotiate the terms of the treaty. All I need to do is make them pay. They don’t pay.

Do you want to maintain America’s 80-year leadership in defending the West, especially Europe, or do you want to change the post-World War II architecture that has kept us out of global conflict for the past 80 years?

Trump: I want them to pay. It’s simple. NATO is very good. You see, my issue with NATO is, I think if we have a problem, they won’t come to defend us.

Don’t you think so?

Trump: No, I don’t believe it. I know them. Even if they pay, it’s a one-way street. I hope they pay. But I believe that if we are attacked, NATO will not act. Many NATO countries will not act.

Will you continue to provide military and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine?

Trump: I will do my best to help Ukraine, but Europe must also participate and fulfill its responsibilities. They did not fulfill their responsibilities. Europe did not pay the costs it should bear.

Orban said he has met you here and said you are not willing to spend a penny. Is he right?

Trump: No, I said that unless Europe starts treating us equally, I won’t give a penny. They have to come. Europe has to pay. We have taken on more than European countries. This is very unfair to us. I said, if Europe doesn’t pay, then who is more affected than us. If Europe doesn’t pay, why should we pay?

So you may not support Ukraine?

Trump: Listen, we’ve been hurt on trade. We’ve been hurt on trade. The European Union has been very brutal to us on trade. We’ve talked to them. They don’t want our cars. They don’t want our agricultural products. They don’t want anything from us. It’s like a one-way street. NATO, same thing. They’ve been very bad to us. They don’t pay their bills. Now, I came along and we’re starting to get paid. I tell you, Secretary General Stoltenberg said it, I wish he was here to say it again, but he said it very loud and very clear, ‘I have never seen anything like Trump’s power.’ Because every president comes over, they make a speech and then they leave. Trump came over and brought us billions and billions of dollars. I got hundreds of billions of dollars from those countries that were delinquent, 01928374656574839201. He’s my biggest fan. I hope he still is, but I don’t know that he is, you know, maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. But even with the recent one, right, because you asked me a question. The question was two parts. Four years ago and now. I did a great job for NATO in getting money, because NATO was taking in, you know, a pittance. NATO even now is unable to do what they’re doing. They’re building stupid office buildings. They’re building an office building that’s going to cost $3 billion.

Taiwan——

Miller: Eric, Eric, I have to end it, because his dinner is coming.

Can we do a quick Q&A, because——

Miller: Eric, I have three minutes before dinner starts.

Well, you say - -

Trump: By the way, do you understand what I just said?

Understood, understood.

Trump: He spent $3 billion to hire the same architect -

Time is limited, let’s go straight to the quick Q&A section.

Trump: Do you understand?

I understand, Mr. President. You said you only want to be a dictator for one day. What do you mean?

Trump: That’s sarcasm towards Sean Hannity. He asked, ‘Do you want to be a dictator?’ I said, ‘Just for one day. I want to close the border, I want to drill, baby, drill.’ And then I said, ‘After that, I don’t want to be a dictator anymore.’ That’s how it goes. It’s sarcasm. It’s a joke. Everyone knows.

Do you know why - well, you say you are joking, but do you know why -

Trump: No, no, wait. If you read it, that’s a joke. I want to be president for a day. Do you know why? Because we have an incompetent fool who allows people to enter our country. We have an incompetent fool who has pushed energy prices so high in such a short time. By the way, you know, he has adopted many of my policies now. But the day after the election, if they win, there will be no more oil.

You understand why so many Americans see this kind of language, you know, a dictator for a day, suspending the constitution——

Trump: I think a lot of people like it.

But do you know why they think this is contrary to our most cherished democratic principles?

Trump: No, I think the media thinks so. Not because they don’t understand, they understand just like you, just like anyone else. That sentence was said jokingly, ironically, and sarcastically.

Only four words -

Trump: just like ‘Russia, if you’re listening.’ Do you remember ‘Russia, if you’re listening’?

Yes

Trump: The meaning of this sentence is exactly the same. ‘Russia, if you are listening.’ Everyone knows that this sentence is sarcastic. But they cut off the laughter. You know, they cut off the laughter immediately. As soon as it was said, it was immediately cut off. But this sentence is sarcastic, it’s a joke, it’s a joke. It’s the same thing. I said, ‘I want to be a dictator for a day, I want to close the border. I want to drill, baby, drill.’ And then I said, ‘After that, I don’t want to be a dictator anymore.’ Now…

You did say.

Trump: Yes. But no one reported it.

Well, we have the opportunity to have a good talk and understand the whole truth, that’s what I want to do.

Trump: But you should understand what I mean.

I understand what you mean.

Trump: I hope you report this. Because this sentence is indeed said.

I give you the opportunity to respond.

Trump: Very good. This sentence was also said with a smile, Eric. I’m laughing. Sean Hannity asked me this question.

However, this can be frightening, sir. It will scare people.

Trump: I don’t understand why it’s like this. Everyone, anyone who sees it will say I was laughing at the time. He was laughing at the time. The whole room was laughing. You know, that’s a city hall?

I see.

Trump: The people in the city hall laughed heartily. It was just a joke.

**Of the 44 people who served in your cabinet last time, only 4 supported you in this election. [Editor’s note: During the interview, about six Trump cabinet members supported him.] You know, some people have already come out saying they won’t support you in this election.

Trump: I don’t know. Like who? I’ve got a lot of support. I’ve got Mnuchin’s support!

Your former chief of staff, former defense minister——

Trump: Well, I don’t know. You see, what I mean is -

But the question is, why the voters - -

Trump: Well, wait a minute. Just this week, Mnuchin supported me. Pompeo supports me too. Who are these people? I mean, some people don’t support me because I don’t think they’re very good. You see, when people feel that you don’t like them and you won’t bring them back, they won’t support you. I won’t bring back many people like that. I have some great people and some bad ones. When they feel unwelcome and won’t come back, they don’t want to support.

Okay, sir, what I want to ask is, why should voters trust you?

Trump: I have a lot of people supporting me.

You got a lot——

Miller: I will send him the complete list.

You’ve received a lot of support. I don’t question that. But the question I must ask is -

Trump: No, I’m serious. There are many people in the cabinet who support me. Now, I must tell you, I didn’t ask many people to support me.

They come to you on their own initiative. I know, sir.

Trump: If I call 95% of the people I’ve talked to, as long as I make one call, they will support me within two minutes.

What I want to ask is: Since many of the people who follow you most closely in your first term believe that you should not seek re-election, why should the voters trust you?

Trump: Well, they don’t like me because I don’t like them. I fired some of them. Bill Barr, I fired Bill Barr. I don’t want him. Others, I think he did a terrible job. He’s about to be impeached, impeached by the Democrats, and he’s totally collapsing. Bolton is a fool. He’s a stupid fool. But actually, he played a good role because he’s a madman. Every time he walks into a room, people feel like you’re going to war. He’s the one who persuaded Bush to go into the Middle East, bomb it, and eventually destroy the whole world. But nothing happened. What did we get out of it? We bombed the Middle East. No one got anything out of it. That’s Bolton’s people. You can ignore them. You can mention everyone you’re talking about. I’ll tell you why I don’t want their support. Now I have great people, you know, I rebuilt the military.

Miller: The president’s dinner is going to be late.

No cabinet member of Biden has come out to oppose him.

Trump: Because Biden and I are completely different. He retained the bad guys. For example, on the issue of Afghanistan, he retained Milley. Milley should be fired immediately. Based on his remarks about China, Milley should be fired. If he really said these things, it would be a very serious matter. You know, his remarks about China, if he really said them, I think he did say them because there are recordings. This is indeed a serious issue. But he should be fired for this. Others should also be fired. Many people should be fired. I did fire some people, fired many people. Now, I let them resign because, you know, I have a heart. I don’t want anyone to feel embarrassed. But these people were almost all fired by me.

You can take a look at the people in the military. I said, “General, give me a letter.” Each of them handed me a letter. So, they handed me a letter. I think I won’t do this again. I think, from now on, I will dismiss them. Do you know why? Because they said they resigned on their own. They did not resign. I said, “Give me a letter.” That’s the gentleman’s way. “General, give me the letter.” I solved ISIS. Some say it takes five years, but I solved it in a very short time. Our military is very powerful, if you look at our military, I have the support of the military, the common people, and the real generals, not the generals on TV. But you can ask, I have the support of 90% to 95% of the people. Everyone will support me.

You will–

Miller: Eric, Eric, I have to go to the President’s dinner. Sorry

The 25th project of the Traditional Foundation and the ‘American Conservative’ magazine are both strong supporters of yours. They propose to abolish the 22nd Amendment, which limits the President to two terms. They say that if you are re-elected, you will serve two non-consecutive terms, and if the people support you, you have no reason not to- [Editor’s note: This proposal comes from the ‘American Conservative’, not the ‘25th plan’.]

Trump: I didn’t know they did this.

So, are you sure you will retire after the end of your second term, or would you consider challenging the 22nd amendment?

Trump: Well, I will, and I have no choice but to do so.

Would you consider it?

Trump: I think, I will, you know, I will do this. Listen, this is two terms. I participated in two elections. I performed much better in the second election than in the first. I got millions of votes. I was treated very unfairly. They cheated with the new crown epidemic and did many other things. But I was treated very unfairly. However, no, I plan to only serve for one term, and I will do a great job. We will have a very successful country again.

But would you consider it?

Trump: Then I left.

You said you would consider.

Trump: What are you thinking about?

Challenge the 22nd Amendment.

Trump: I know nothing about this. I mean, you’re telling me now that someone wants to terminate. I won’t endorse it. I won’t endorse the challenge. I don’t endorse it. I absolutely won’t endorse it. I intend to serve the full four years and make a difference. I want to put our country back on track. Our country is on a downward spiral. We are heading towards decline. Our country is in turmoil.

Miller: Eric, it’s getting late - the president’s dinner. Sorry.

Is there anything else we haven’t discussed before them?

Trump: No.

Did I miss anything?

Trump: No, I think the interview was very successful.

Thank you very much

Trump: If it is written objectively and fairly, then it is a successful interview.

I still have a lot of questions to ask you.

Trump: I find these issues very interesting.

I just want to ask some good, in-depth questions. I have a lot of topics I want to talk about.

Trump: I only ask for one thing: fair treatment.

I know how to do it, sir.

Trump: Let me put it this way. Everyone wants to work for me. Many people say, ‘Oh, will he work for me? Will he be Vice President? Will he accept?’ Vice President? Everyone in the country calls me, begging me to be Vice President. Everyone calls me, wanting to be in the cabinet. Everyone wants to work for me. Everyone wants to. It’s good to say, ‘General, give me a letter’ or ‘Who will give me a letter.’ I don’t think I’ll do that anymore. But it’s a good thing. But everyone wants to work for me. We will have a very successful government. The advantage I have now is that I know everyone. I know them, know their strengths, weaknesses, foolishness, and intelligence. I know everyone. When I first arrived in Washington, I knew very few people. I had to rely on others. Some of them gave me good advice.

The person close to you told me that you are now more suspicious of everything-

Trump: What’s the doubt?

Suspecting betrayal in Washington?

Trump: I haven’t become more skeptical. I understand the way of nature - that’s the way it works. I run a difficult company, and some people can’t accept that. You know, working for Biden is very easy. He never fires anyone. He should fire everyone related to Afghanistan. He should dismiss everyone related to border affairs. I will fire everyone, and this will be big news.

Miller: Eric, he is 10 minutes late for dinner.

Okay, okay. I don’t want to be rude.

Trump: No, I think it’s very interesting.

Thank you, sir.

Trump: Thank you very much.

Trump’s phone follow-up interview

Two weeks after the interview at Mar-a-Lago estate, Time magazine conducted a 20-minute phone interview with Trump on April 27. The following is a lightly edited transcript of the conversation.

Last time we talked, you said you would announce the policy on the abortion pill mifepristone within the next two weeks. You haven’t announced it yet. Do you want to announce it now?

Trump: No, I haven’t yet. I will announce it in the next week or two. But frankly, I don’t think it will be surprising. But I will announce it in the next week or two. We support helping women, Eric. I support helping women. You may have seen that the effect of test-tube babies is very good. And, you know, I formulated a policy that Republicans immediately adopted.

Indeed.

Trump: This is a good policy for women. It is important to note that it is meant to help, not harm, women. So, I believe that IVF technology has now become a part of our work. This is important. I think this should be at the same time as our interview. But in terms of the final result- as you can also see, Alabama and other states have now passed legislation approving this technology.

Yes, yes. Of course, Arizona has also passed relevant laws.

Trump: Yes.

Mr. President, Iran recently launched a large-scale attack on Israel from within its own borders for the first time.

Trump: Yes.

If Israel and Iran go to war, should the United States support Israel’s military strikes against Iran?

Trump: Yes, if a similar situation occurs. Many people say it was a ceremonial attack because they allow everyone to know what happened. If that’s the case, it would be a good thing, not a bad thing. But many people say that attack was, you know, I mean, everyone knows. I heard about it before the attack happened, and so did others. So it depends, the answer is yes. If they attack Israel, yes, we will go.

Understood. Well, as you know, there are currently campus protest activities against Israel and its war in Gaza, as well as against the United States’ position in the region all across the country.

Trump: Yes.

Your former Secretary of Defense said that during the Black Lives Matter movement, you suggested shooting protesters in the legs—

Trump: Yes, which Secretary of Defense?

It’s Esper.

Trump: Well, he is my worst Secretary of Defense. He is a weak and incompetent person. He was recommended by some moderate Republicans whom I don’t respect very much. But you know, I haven’t been in office for long, so I have to rely on others. No, he is a very incompetent Secretary of Defense. No, but I want to ask, are you talking about the situation in college or something else?

I just want to ask, as President, would you use the US military against protesters?

Trump: If the police cannot stop it, I will definitely use the National Guard. I will definitely use the National Guard. I mean, if you look at the Washington Monument incident, I passed a law. I cited an old law and made it effective. If you desecrate the monument, you will be sentenced to at least 10 years in prison, without parole, and it will take effect immediately. I don’t need to use too many resources. This is related to the monument. It’s a time of monument, and people like to tear down monuments.

I have signed a law that stipulates that those who defile historical sites will be sentenced to ten years in prison, not less than ten years. You know, this is very effective. I don’t know, I think you have also seen that everything has stopped after that.

I remember that period, sir. So you would rule out using the military against the protesters?

Trump: I will deploy the National Guard. I don’t think you need to deploy more force.

You often talk about “wokeism” on college campuses. Polls show that a majority of supporters believe that anti-white racism is now worse than anti-black racism. Do you agree? **

Trump: Oh, I think there’s a lot to say about this issue. If you look at the Biden administration, they’re against anyone with specific views. They’re against Catholics, against many different people. They don’t even know what they’re against, but they’re against a lot of things. But I think there is indeed a sentiment in this country against white people, and that is unacceptable.

As president, how would you solve this problem?

Trump: Frankly, I don’t think it’s a big deal. But I think the law is very unfair. Education is also being treated unfairly and suppressed. But I don’t think it’s a big problem. But if you look at it now, there is definitely bias against white people, and that’s a problem.

I would like to hear your views on China issues. Do you think the United States should defend Taiwan if China invades?

Trump: I have been asked this question many times, and I always refuse to answer because I don’t want to reveal my cards to outstanding journalists like you. But the answer is no. China is clear about my answer. But they must understand that this kind of thing will not happen easily. But what I want to say is that although I want to make a public statement, I have never made a public statement because I don’t want to weaken my negotiating power by revealing such information to any reporter.

I understand your situation—

Trump: If you really come out and make some kind of statement, your situation will become very bad.

I understand, sir. Taiwan, China, has stated that US assistance to Ukraine is crucial in preventing China from retaking Taiwan. Do you agree with this statement?

Trump: Well, I think they have the same idea. Do we want to help them like we helped Ukraine? So they hope so, they believe if you don’t help Ukraine, then you probably won’t help them either. So I think from their policy perspective, this is difficult. This is US policy. This is to help countries in distress.

You said that if Israel went to war with Iran, you would support Israel. Do you think the U.S. can maintain its military presence in the Middle East while containing the expansionist goals of Russia and China, or do we need to withdraw our troops to fulfill our obligations overseas?

Trump: I think we have a lot of choices. I think we shouldn’t be in many places, and we may not be in some places where we should be. In terms of the military, we have a lot of choices. We can manage our expectations, and the military can deploy quickly to certain places.

Will you withdraw troops from South Korea?

Trump: I hope South Korea can treat us well. As we all know, I made them - I negotiated with them, because they hardly paid any fees for our 40,000 troops stationed there. We have 40,000 troops, and the situation is somewhat risky, to put it politely, because there is a person I have a good relationship with living next door, but he has his own views on things.

We have a 40,000-strong army and our situation is precarious. I told South Korea that it’s time for them to pay. They have become very wealthy. We basically provide most of the army for them for free. They agreed to pay billions of dollars. Now, maybe because I’m no longer there, they only paid a small amount of money. I don’t know if you know, but they renegotiated the deal I made. They only paid a small amount of money. But they paid billions of dollars for us to station troops there. As far as I know, they renegotiated with the Biden administration, dropping the number to the previous level, which is almost zero.

Understood. President Trump, you’ve been–

Trump: It just doesn’t make sense, Eric. Why should we defend others? And we’re talking about a very wealthy country. But they are a very wealthy country, why don’t they want to pay? Actually, they have a pleasant deal. It wasn’t easy at first, but in the end, it became a pleasant deal. They agreed to pay billions of dollars to the United States as the cost of our military stationed there. Billions of dollars, many billions of dollars.

President Trump, you are the leader of the most powerful democratic country in the world, and you have dealt with leaders of authoritarian countries. Why is democracy better than authoritarianism?

Trump: Well, it’s because of the word freedom. You have freedom. You have all the advantages and no disadvantages. If you have true democracy, you have freedom. I think our democracy is becoming less and less democratic as we see the weaponization of the Department of Justice and the FBI. Look at what happened with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). Look at all the things that are happening, and we’ll find that our democracy is becoming less and less. But if the democratic system is properly run, and when I return to the White House, it will be properly run, it will be a very perfect democratic system, not like we are now. I think our situation now is that presidential candidates have to spend eight hours a day in court instead of meaninglessly campaigning. More than zero. More than nonsense. And all of this is planned and pushed by the Biden administration. I don’t think this is democracy anymore. I think this is something that only third-world countries would do.

I want you to respond to something else you said that has sparked controversy. You wrote on Truth Social that you may have to terminate parts of the Constitution. What do you mean by that?

Trump: I have never said. I have never said. When I talk about something, nothing is more important than our Constitution. But Democrats violated our Constitution through improper elections and many other things. They used the FBI and DOJ to unfairly and unconstitutionally pursue people, thus violating the Constitution. I have a judge who issued a gag order against me, and I am the leading candidate, leading Biden. I am the Republican candidate and I am far ahead of Biden. Eric, I don’t know if you’ve seen the recent polls. If you want, we can send them to you. Jason, please send them to Eric, thank you.

Jason Miller: Okay, sir.

Trump: But we’re basically leading in all swing states and overall, you know, I’m suing. Lawsuits instigated by Biden, judges have issued gag orders against me, not allowing me to answer many very important questions. This is a violation of the Constitution. I will end these unconstitutional actions. That’s what I’m saying. They violated the Constitution. They have seriously deviated from our Constitution. I’m talking about fascists and some people in our government, because I think they are enemies within. I think, in many cases, internal enemies are more dangerous to our country than external enemies, including China, Russia, and other countries, frankly, who the enemy is depends on who the president is.

President Trump

Trump: Because if you have a suitable president, you can deal with them very cleverly and everyone will be very satisfied. But if you don’t have a suitable president, I agree that they will become powerful enemies. However, if the president knows what he is doing, the threat from internal enemies to this country is greater than the threat from external enemies. Because if the president is excellent, reliable, and suitable candidate, then you don’t have to worry about China, Russia, or other countries, but still face problems from the domestic sick population.

Mr. President, in our last conversation, you said you are not worried about political violence related to the November elections. You said, ‘I think we will win, there will be no violent incidents.’ What if you don’t win, sir?

Trump: Well, I think we will win. We are far ahead. I don’t think they can act like they did last time, the last election was too scary. Absolutely terrible. They did too many things that violated the rules. Everyone knows this. We can list a long string of them, but I don’t think we will do that. I think we will win. If we don’t, then it depends on the situation. It always depends on the fairness of the election. I don’t believe they can act like they did last time. I don’t think they will succeed. If that’s the case, we will win in a record-breaking way.

One final question, Mr. President, and thank you for your generosity, because I know your time is limited. We’ve just marked the fourth anniversary of the outbreak of the coronavirus pandemic. One of your historic achievements was Operation Warp Speed. If there’s another pandemic, would you take the same kind of action to produce and distribute a vaccine as quickly as possible, so that Americans can be vaccinated as soon as possible?

Trump: I did a great job. I appreciate the way you asked the question. I have a very important Democratic fren who may vote for me, but I can’t be 100% sure because he is a serious Democrat who asked me this question. He said ‘blazingly fast action’ is one of the greatest achievements in government history. What you have done is incredible, the speed is amazing, you know, the whole process originally took five to twelve years. Not only that: ventilators, treatments, regenerons, and other things. Regeneron is incredible. But treatment - everything. Overall - ‘blazingly fast action,’ you never talk about it. Democrats talk about it as if it is the greatest achievement. So I don’t talk about it. I let others talk about it.

You know, you have strong two views on vaccines. This is interesting. Democrats love vaccines. Democrats. The only reason I don’t take credit for this. Republicans often don’t do this, although I can tell you that many of them have been vaccinated. This is very interesting. Some people say the most. I say, ‘Well, you haven’t been vaccinated, have you?’ In fact, he has been vaccinated, but you know, etc.

But Democrats think this is an incredible achievement and they hope to be honored for it, while Republicans think otherwise. I won’t bring it up. All I did was do the right thing. In fact, we have received many honors for our ‘lightning-fast action.’ Its power and speed are incredible. Remember, I said no one knows what it is. You know, we spent two and a half years, almost three years, and no one thought of it. Everyone thought the flu pandemic was an old problem. Not a modern problem anymore, right? You know, you wouldn’t think of this problem, would you? Have you heard of the European flu pandemic in 1917? You wouldn’t think that would happen. You learn if possible. But no one foresaw this situation, and we took over, and I don’t blame the previous management at all because, likewise, no one foresaw this situation. But at that time, our reserves were very scarce.

We have no protective clothing, no masks. No goggles, no medicine. No respirator. We have nothing. The reserves are completely lacking. I injected vitality into this country, which is unprecedented. Many people praised me for this. Unfortunately, most of those who praised me were Democrats.

So, sir, if the same situation happens again in the next four years, would you still do the same thing to get the vaccine into the hands of the American people as quickly as possible?

Trump: Well, things have changed. What I mean is, you know, when it first came out, we didn’t know what it was, it was something that no one had heard of. At that time, they didn’t call it COVID-19. They gave it all sorts of names. Somehow, they finally settled on COVID-19. It’s the China virus, among other names.

But when it appeared, no one knew what was going on. They only knew there was dust coming from China. And something bad happened near Wuhan, China. You know, I predicted. I think you should know, I said very firmly that it’s from Wuhan. It’s from the Wuhan lab. I’ve been saying that from day one. Because what I saw made me believe, very firmly believe. But what I said at the time was right. Now many people say Trump was really right. Many people say, ‘Oh, it comes from a cave, or from another country.’ China is trying to make people believe it comes from Italy and France, you know, first Italy, then France. I said, ‘No, it comes from China, from the Wuhan lab.’ That’s the fact. I said this a long time ago, and I haven’t said anything else since. But ‘Operation Warp Speed’ has won me a lot of praise. Most of it comes from Democrats. I think a large part of Republicans also agree with this action. But many people are unwilling to admit it and unwilling to talk about it.

So, finally, follow up: The Biden administration has established the Office of Pandemic Prevention and Response, a permanent agency within the executive branch responsible for preparing for pandemics that have not yet occurred. In 2018, you disbanded a similar agency established by Obama. Will you also disband Biden’s office?

Trump: Well, he wants to spend money on things that could be 100 years, 50 years, or 25 years. It’s just one way of dividing the money. Yes, I might do that because I think we’ve learned a lot and we can mobilize, you know, we can mobilize. When you encounter something, most of what you do and most of what you buy is outdated. As for drugs, you know, there are significant differences in these drugs depending on different strains, different types of flu or viruses. You know, things change so much. So, yes, I think I would. That doesn’t mean we won’t constantly follow the epidemic. But it’s hard to predict what will happen in the future because these pandemics have many variants. I mean, if you look closely, you’ll find these variants are incredible. But we’re doing well in terms of treatment. And these therapies are for this epidemic, not for other diseases. So, no, I think this is just another - from a political standpoint, it sounds good, but I think it’s a very expensive solution that won’t work. When you see it happening, you have to act quickly.

Mr. President, thank you for being so generous with your time at MaraLago and today. I’m delighted to have the opportunity to ask you these questions.

Trump: Thank you, Eric. It’s an honor to know you. Feel free to call me anytime, okay?

Okay, I got it, sir. Thank you.

Trump: Okay. Thank you very much.

*Correction, April 30: The original version of this record incorrectly attributed the proposal to repeal the 22nd Amendment. The proposal was made by the magazine “American Conservative”, not the traditional Foundation’s ‘Project 25’.

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